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This is a work in progress. Things may change but as of right now these are the official rules in place for raids. Please check back before each raid for any new updates or revisions.
Since everyone seems to be so against allowing everyone to roll on items and allowing people to sell items we are implementing the following DKP bidding and looting system:
Bids will be Raiders > Members > Alts > Bank. The only exceptions is if a member or alt is specifically asked to be on a raid by the raid leader. Then they can bid as a raider for that raid.
Only classes that can use an item can bid on them and on certain items those classes will be limited to the classes that can best use the item to help the guild. I am looking at this specifically on what is in the best interest of the guild as a whole.
If an item is droppable and not an upgrade for a character currently on the raid it will be looted and sold by the guild bank. Members will have 1st dibs at sellable loot at a discounted price. Some items may be opened for DKP bidding to anyone on the raid at the decision of the master looter. These items will be open to all raiders or members on the raid to bid on. Alts will NOT be allowed to bid on them once they go to a greed bid.
New members will be promoted to Raider status at the 2nd raid they attend until the time we have 6 of each class marked as a Raider and 10 clerics marked as Raider. If there is already 6 of people in a class marked as raider then new members will have to stay at member status until a spot opens up. We ask all active raiders to keep a 50% or higher raid attendance for each month or the class leaders will demote them down to member status. We may adjust these numbers as we see how many raiders are attemding the raids each night until we get enough raiders every raid night to do successful raids.
Here is the list of class restricted items:
Naggy:
Bladestopper - Any class that can use it limit 1 per person
Cloak of Flames - Any class that can use it limit 1 per person
Red Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Warriors and Bards any extra goes to guild bank. Members can buy from the guild bank at a discount if wanted for other armor or turn-ins.
Treasure Hunter's Satchel - Any class limit 1 per person
Vox:
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Runed Bolster Belt - Any class limit 1 per person
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Hide - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Bards any extra goes to guild bank
Cazic Thule:
Amulet of Necropotence - Any class limit 1 per person
Brain of Cazic-Thule - Any class limit 1 per person
Cloak of the Fearsome - Warrior, Pally, SK, Monk, Bard, Rogue, Ranger
Eye of Cazic-Thule - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
Golems:
Darkwood Trunk - Any class limit 1 per person
Slime Blood of Cazic-Thule - Epic loot randomed for Necro epic any extra goes to guild bank. We are keeping 2 in the guild bank at all times for epic MQ's anything else that drops will be DKP to anyone who wants to bid. All classes can bid. Limit 1 per person.
Plane of Sky:
Most items are class specific so only classes that can use the items are allowed to bid on them.
Venril Sathir:
Most items are class specific so only classes that can use the items are allowed to bid on them.
Talendor:
Cloak of Flames - Any class limit 1 per person
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Red Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Warriors and Bards any extra goes to guild bank. Members can buy from the guild bank at a discount if wanted for other armor or turn-ins.
Runed Bolster Belt - Any class limit 1 per person
Trakanon:
Cloak of Piety - Pally, SK, Druid, Ranger, Wizard, Necro, Enchanter, Cleric, Shaman, Mage
Mana Robe - Necro, Enchanter, Wizard, Mage
Siblisian Berserker Cloak - Warrior, Pally, SK, Ranger, Bard, Rogue, Monk
Faydedar:
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Pod of Seawater - Druid Epic loot. If no one needs we keep 1 in guild for the MQ then will be open DKP bids to anyone on raid. They can sell or give to whoever they want.
Runed Bolster Belt - Any class limit 1 per person
Treasure Hunter's Satchel - Any class limit 1 per person
Severilous:
Cloak of Flames - Any class limit 1 per person
Green Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Warriors any extra goes to guild bank. Members can buy from the guild bank at a discount if wanted for other armor or turn-ins.
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Runed Bolster Belt - Any class limit 1 per person
Treasure Hunter's Satchel - Any class limit 1 per person
Plane of Hate:
Shild of the Immaculate - Warrior, Pally, SK, Rogue, Monk, Bard, Ranger
King Tormax:
Boots of the Storm - Warrior
Crown of the Kromzek Kings - Warrior, Paladin, Shadow Knight
Ring of Lightning - Necro, Enchanter, Wizard, Mage
Velium Encrusted Gauntlets - Warrior, Paladin, Shadow Knight
Derakor the Vindicator:
Boots of the Vindicator - Warrior, Paladin, Shadow Knight
Cheastplate of Vindication - Warrior
Living Thunder Earring - Warrior, Paladin, Shadow Knight
Vaniki:
Willsapper - Warrior
The Avatar of War:
Blade of Carnage - Warrior
Will update and post restricted items each night before the raid. I am trying to keep everything fair for classes and loot and to stop people from bidding on items to sell or people accusing people of doing that. If an item is not an upgrade for that class and no one needs it then it will be sold by the guild to buy items people in the guild needs. Guildies will have 1st chance at items being sold and at a discounted price.
Please bear with us as this seems to be the fairest way to do loot atm. Nothing is perfect and no matter what we do leaders get tells from people who's not happy about it. We have to draw a line in the sand and stick to what is best for the majority of the guild. If anyone knows of specific loot from any of these mobs that seems to be something people bid on to sell please let me know so I can place the proper restrictions on them.
Last edited by Burta (9/25/2019 4:22 pm)
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I like the bulk of this. One suggestion that I might make would be bonus DKP for milestone kills. These would be endpoint targets such as Cazic, Innoruuk, Vox, and Nagafen. But, would only be given for the first kill, this being the milestone.
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Vypros wrote:
I like the bulk of this. One suggestion that I might make would be bonus DKP for milestone kills. These would be endpoint targets such as Cazic, Innoruuk, Vox, and Nagafen. But, would only be given for the first kill, this being the milestone.
I like this too. We will be using this as well I will leave it up to the raid later to offer this for a milestone kill. And there will be other opportunities turn extra dkp as well. I offered 10 dkp for everyone who signs up for this Message Board by tonight.
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As I have yet to make it to a raid (recently hit 46 and working on figuring out schedule), just curious if DKP bidding is public or anonymous (in channel vs. tells to loot master). Just want to clarify as the wording above seems like you would declare that you would like to bid DKP to avoid the item being rolled, but doesn't specify how the bids would be entered.
But all in all, seems like a solid system to me. Due to my spotty potential raid appearances, my opinion should not be weighted heavily, but I also like the idea of the milestone bonus.
Last edited by LypheGozon (4/17/2019 10:19 am)
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I am also trying to adjust the points somewhat to make each raid night worth about the same amount of dkp so we don't get people just wanting to show up for say hate or you get 30+ dkp per night as let's say sky were you would get less because there unless major mobs. But rest assured that by the end of the week I will have all the points figured out and everyone will get the same amount of points for the time spent there and the mobs they kill.
Last edited by Burta (4/17/2019 5:16 pm)
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LypheGozon wrote:
As I have yet to make it to a raid (recently hit 46 and working on figuring out schedule), just curious if DKP bidding is public or anonymous (in channel vs. tells to loot master). Just want to clarify as the wording above seems like you would declare that you would like to bid DKP to avoid the item being rolled, but doesn't specify how the bids would be entered.
But all in all, seems like a solid system to me. Due to my spotty potential raid appearances, my opinion should not be weighted heavily, but I also like the idea of the milestone bonus.
Bidding with dkp will be done in public either in a raid Channel or a specific Channel set up just for bidding. We Have No Secrets here everyone will know exactly how much the high bidder bids and will have an opportunity to outbid them if they would like.
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maybe a minimum bid after 1? so bids will go faster. 1 4 7 10 etc.
watched a bid go up by mostly 1s in sky tonight. its very time consuming.
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rare items should be based on attendance. not on guild status. imo
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GodKing wrote:
Is there any decay or reset?
As of right now no decay if u earn the points not making u spend them
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greel wrote:
maybe a minimum bid after 1? so bids will go faster. 1 4 7 10 etc.
watched a bid go up by mostly 1s in sky tonight. its very time consuming.
Once we get this down it will go faster i think.
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greel wrote:
rare items should be based on attendance. not on guild status. imo
We have a clause set up where rare items may be given out based on what is best for the guild but whoever shows up the most will naturally have the most dkp to spend so they should be the ones who can get it.
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"5 points for being at the raid when it officially ends."
Does this mean the end of the scheduled time e.g. 3 hours? Or is it over whenever the raid leaders declare it officially ended regardless how long it runs over?
One suggestion might be to award the 5 dkp at 7:30 pm and offer a bonus for those who can stay longer if needed.
Just like to clarify as some of us have hard cutoff times negotiated with our spouses!
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Normally its when the raid is officially over. On wednesday night raids we will call it over at 11pm. It may be a little eariler or a little later if we are doing sky since we will call it at whatever island we clear closest to 11pm. Weekends its whenever we clear the instance of fear or hate that we start.
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50 points to start out, is that at the beginning of the raid? Or is that just in general, one time? If so then Aveline is not on that list and I have been on a few raids now. :-)
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Aveline wrote:
50 points to start out, is that at the beginning of the raid? Or is that just in general, one time? If so then Aveline is not on that list and I have been on a few raids now. :-)
One time i usually add them the 1st time you get on the dkp list
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In response to the raid chatter saying in essence: special people get special items- that will be so rare it won't be worth arguing about. The first shield of the immaculate is the first and only case of this happening, but it could happen in future raids.
We intentionally have a dkp system instead of a loot council to avoid the misconception that we are favoring certain individuals. The favor will go to those who raid the most by the fact that they have the most dkp to spend- that is assuming they want to spend it at all.
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In response to Lucianna's request for a hard raid cutoff time- I don't see the raids taking more and more time, rather the raids should be shorter as we progress unless we are failing a new target, in which case the dkp reward for completing the progression target is increased for a first kill.
There is no requirement to raid in this guild. Period. Uratowel is an example of a level 50 in the guild that has never raided. That said, the raid times being prolonged at times happens and I don't want to cut off dkp with a solid raid ending with /random for the loot on a difficult target because we had a hard locked time to end. Giving bonus dkp to people who stay longer past a set time only makes the DKP disparity for people who have to leave earlier worse.
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Two yellows from 46 so expecting to be raid ready by the weekend thanks to some really cool Swedes.
I know bidding under this system can take some time when people are raising bids one point at a time. I have seen that happen a few times when a new dkp system is setup. But trust me, everyone WILL TIRE of trying to mirco manage their DKP to the single point and they will soon bid more confident with higher amounts.
My personal position is I enjoy savoring the drop. If its awarded in under 15 seconds and off to the next fight, that is all well and good but you miss out on the suspense of a lengthy bid process that can be an enjoyable experience in its own.
The only sticky part is the super rare and important drops. By definition these are rare occasion that are handled outside the dkp system. Seems a guild will lose at least one member per occasion due to that member being unable to place the logic of guild progression above his or her own ideology of “loot fairness”. But as a gamer of many mmos, including this one’s initial launch, every guild who does not appropriately handles the super rare loot this way, those guilds fail. And the gear goes to people who never realize guild progression.
Last edited by Jools (4/26/2019 12:19 pm)
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Yeah very rarely will loot be handed out. With the dkp system we got by limiting the items to the classes that can best use it we shouldn't have to resort to handing items anymore to people. The people who put in the time to raid will have the points to get these rare items.
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I like the new change. Even as someone who has designs on playing more than one raid character, I think this change can only make things easier.
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OK after Wednesday nights raid we are trying out a new looting system. Since everyone seems to be so against allowing everyone to roll on items and allowing people to sell items for tonight and the rest of the weekend we are implementing the following DKP bidding and looting system:
Bids will be Raiders > Members > Alts.
Only classes that can use an item can bid on them and on certain items those classes will be limited to the classes that can best use the item to help the guild.
If an item is droppable and not an upgrade for a character currently on the raid it will be looted and sold by the guild bank.
Since tonight is Fear and usually naggy and vox here are the list of class restricted items:
Naggy:
Bladestopper - Warrior, SK, Pally
Cloak of Flames - Warrior, SK, Pally, Monk, Rogue, Bard, Ranger
Red Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Warriors and Bards any extra goes to guild bank
Treasure Hunter's Satchel - Any class limit 1 per person
Vox:
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Runed Bolster Belt - Warrior, SK, Pally, Monk, Bard, Rogue, Ranger
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Hide - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Bards any extra goes to guild bank
Cazic Thule:
Amulet of Necropotence - Necro, Mage, Enchanter, Wizard
Brain of Cazic-Thule - Any class
Cloak of the Fearsome - Warrior, Pally, SK, Monk, Bard, Rogue, Ranger
Eye of Cazic-Thule - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
Golems:
Darkwood Trunk - Any class limit 1 per person
Slime Blood of Cazic-Thule - Epic loot randomed for Necro epic any extra goes to guild bank
Will update and post restricted items each night before the raid for the rest of the weekend and hopefully we will have a new revised DKP rule list by Wednesday nights raid.
Last edited by Burta (7/05/2019 11:59 am)
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No system is perfect and will make everyone happy but I think I speak for many when I say I apprecitae the efforts of all officers and your genuine concern for the guild and what best serves our members. Loot to me is secondary. The great people of this guild and the fun, exciting things we do together, along with a genuine desire to help is what keeps me here. Running a guild (or any organization) is a challenging and ofttimes thankless job. I for one acknowledge and appreciate your hard work. You're doing an awesome job, each one of you. Keep up the good work. There is much more ahead of us and I'm excited to see what comes next.
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Just checking, rangers seem to have been left off the melee list here.. oversight?
Burta wrote:
OK after Wednesday nights raid we are trying out a new looting system. Since everyone seems to be so against allowing everyone to roll on items and allowing people to sell items for tonight and the rest of the weekend we are implementing the following DKP bidding and looting system:
Bids will be Raiders > Members > Alts.
Only classes that can use an item can bid on them and on certain items those classes will be limited to the classes that can best use the item to help the guild.
If an item is droppable and not an upgrade for a character currently on the raid it will be looted and sold by the guild bank.
Since tonight is Fear and usually naggy and vox here are the list of class restricted items:
Naggy:
Bladestopper - Warrior, SK, Pally
Cloak of Flames - Warrior, SK, Pally, Monk, Rogue, Bard
Red Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Warriors and Bards any extra goes to guild bank
Treasure Hunter's Satchel - Any class limit 1 per person
Vox:
Kavruul's Mystic Pouch - Any class limit 1 per person
Runed Bolster Belt - Warrior, SK, Pally, Monk, Bard, Rogue
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Hide - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
White Dragon Scales - Epic loot randomed to Bards any extra goes to guild bank
Cazic Thule:
Amulet of Necropotence - Necro, Mage, Enchanter, Wizard
Brain of Cazic-Thule - Any class
Cloak of the Fearsome - Warrior, Pally, SK, Monk, Bard, Rogue
Eye of Cazic-Thule - Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Shaman, Mage, Enchanter
Golems:
Darkwood Trunk - Any class limit 1 per person
Slime Blood of Cazic-Thule - Epic loot randomed for Necro epic any extra goes to guild bank
Will update and post restricted items each night before the raid for the rest of the weekend and hopefully we will have a new revised DKP rule list by Wednesday nights raid.
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Yes oversight i edited the post to add them
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